Van Cleaf spoke to The Knockturnal about his upcoming sophomore record, collaborating with Zach Bryan and returning to New York.
The undefinable phases of our younger years — from childhood simplicity to teenage rebellion — frequent the soundscape of singer-songwriter Jack Van Cleaf. After releasing his debut album, Fruit From the Trees, in 2022, Van Cleaf’s indie-folk sound and nostalgic ruminations have since led him to tour and perform with artists like Noah Kahan and Briston Maroney.
His upcoming sophomore album, JVC, is steeped in memory, an ode to the promises we make — and sometimes break — to ourselves when growing up. It features the artist’s candid lyricism, as well as collaborations: A cover posted by country singer-songwriter Zach Bryan of his song “Rattlesnake” led the two to re-record and collaborate for a recently released, updated version on Van Cleaf’s upcoming record. His most recent single, “Using You,” was released on April 2, a wry reflection on romance and addiction set to an upbeat cadence and unique percussive interjections. The song precedes the release of JVC on May 9.
Van Cleaf spoke to The Knockturnal about recording his second album, collaborating with Zach Bryan on “Rattlesnake,” and returning to New York.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
The Knockturnal: Around three years have passed since you released your debut album, Fruit from the Trees, which you developed in part while attending Belmont University. Since then, you’ve released more music and you’ve toured. Looking back, what is the biggest teaching you took from your time studying songwriting at college?
Jack Van Cleaf: I think it’s probably what most writers would probably give as their biggest piece of advice — just keep writing and be consistent with it. The thing that I miss the most about school is having the assignments, having to turn a song in at the end of the week, because it forced that discipline and that routine. So that’s something since graduating I’ve tried to build for myself and am still working on.
The Knockturnal: What’s the strongest shift, whether gradual or intentional, that you’ve experienced for yourself as an artist since releasing Fruit from the Trees?
Van Cleaf: The reception to “Rattlesnake” really made me feel affirmed for releasing music in the first place. It took me a while to get that record out, so getting that positive reception more than I anticipated made me really glad and gave me a nudge to keep moving forward, for sure. I think that the tour with Noah Kahan was the first time in quite a few years after graduation that I had felt consistently full of purpose. When we were on the road, I just was like, ‘Okay, I am in the right place.’ I wasn’t sure for a second. So I’m really grateful for that life experience in general. I felt very lucky to be on that tour.
The Knockturnal: When rerecording “Rattlesnake” for the album, you were able to work the song in-person with Zach Bryan and also the friends with whom you initially recorded it. Could you tell us a bit more about your experience recording at Electric Lady Studios?
Van Cleaf: Zach sent me a DM to record the song together, which was hilarious, because I think everyone on my team had been trying to make exactly that happen in the months preceding when he had posted the song. And then he just kind of sent me a DM, very casual. He was like, ‘Oh yeah, if you ever want to do this, I have this idea.’ He was super adamant about having the original band there, which were all my best friends from Belmont — we recorded the song together in 2019. So that was an easy decision on my part to bring them up, and he flew them all up to New York. I love New York, so I was very excited about that. Zach made it happen to get into the studio with us, and I’m so glad he did.
Live performing makes me feel very free and liberated. Studio performances, I don’t think I take to as naturally. Everything just requires practice, I believe. But at least right now, I get in my head much more quickly in the studio, when I’m just kind of staring down the barrel of the recording microphone, thinking about all the infinite takes I could do and not get the right performance. Zach’s approach is not like that, he’s not perfectionistic in the studio. I was already starting to get pretty anxious when he came in, but he brought this fun-loving, spontaneous, creatively impulsive energy — just following his instincts. We recorded the bones of the song live. We were getting set up to do just overdubs only, but he came in, and then we decided to do him, me, and my best friend, Ethan, playing banjo in a circle in the tracking room.
The Knockturnal: Did your experience rerecording “Rattlesnake” impact the way you chose to approach recording any of the other songs on the record or how you’ll record projects in the future?
Van Cleaf: We did the rest of the record a bit beforehand, so I wish I could have taken that lightheartedness into that… It’s perfectionism that really kicks in for me there. But again, luckily, I was surrounded by very close friends and trusted collaborators, so I was able to lean on them… I look back on the recording experience, and I know that it all turned out great. I wish I just sat in it and enjoyed it more.
The Knockturnal: Is there a specific patch of memories that you found yourself drawing on when developing your second record?
Van Cleaf: It was a little bit of everything, I think, kind of scraping the surface of a lot of different parts of my past. A couple of the songs, especially “Smoker,” were deep childhood. I was trying to draw on images of earliest memories, those images of certain things that are burning your memory that you don’t really know what they’re even from, or even if they existed, or were from a dream you had when you were a kid. There’s another song that’s a vinyl exclusive called “Remember Katrina?” that is a little bit like that as well. And then “Off to the Races” is not exactly a super nostalgic song, but it is looking back on teenage years and wishing you cashed in on your rebelliousness back then instead of feeling like you’re past your prime for that kind of behavior. I kind of look back more on, like the rebellious teenage phase and what I was feeling like maybe I missed out on there. So a little bit of everything, but I definitely started looking at early childhood, and that’s something I kind of hope to write about more as I move forward as well.
The Knockturnal: One of my favorite aspects of your songwriting, especially across this record, is your use of metaphor — yours are so unique and also on point in describing a specific feeling or experience. Do you find that when writing songs that revolve around symbolism like “Piñata” or “Rattlesnake,” those symbols come to you at the beginning of the writing process? Or do they come at the end of a stream of thought?
Van Cleaf: I would say they come pretty early on when it’s kind of allegorical. For “Rattlesnake” specifically, I think I had the title of the song first… tying the metaphor together came a little bit later on with“Piñata.” I started writing the verse, and then I think by the time I got to the chorus, I was like, ‘What if this is all piñata themed?’ And so it came a little bit later, but it still informed most of the song, knowing that I had that metaphor to pull from.
The Knockturnal: What are you most looking forward to about sharing these new songs with your fans live?
Van Cleaf: I’m excited to play. There’ll be an acoustic moment in the set, just me and my friend Ethan. I think are going to be playing that one. We just got done with rehearsals a couple of days ago. “Pinata” was feeling really fun. The songs kind of do take on a little bit of a new life when you have a limited amount of people to try to recreate them. Some fun, unexpected new parts come up too. I’m also excited to share a vinyl exclusive track live.
Jack Van Cleaf performs his upcoming album on April 3 at Nightclub 101. His sophomore album, JVC, will be available to stream on May 9.
Photo Courtesy: Joseph Wasilewski
