Ahead of the premiere of the third season of Apple TV series “Shrinking,” co-creator and executive producer Bill Lawrence spoke exclusively to The Knockturnal about what fans can expect.
The Knockturnal:
I had the pleasure of speaking with your amazing cast last week. One conversation that I wanted to ask you about was Jessica Williams talked about how you two discussed that Jimmy and Alice forgiving Louis didn’t sit right with her for Gaby’s character and how you decided to explore that in season three.
Bill Lawrence:
One of the funny things about this show, and all my shows, is that anytime we take big swings, they’re always loosely based on truth. For example on Shrinking, Sean’s therapist takes Sean to fight in cage matches to get his anger out. People are like, that would never happen. But a real therapist in San Diego did it. It’s a 10 minute segment on HBO Real Sports. So there’s real stories of a family befriending a drunk driver. But Jessica really helped us as we were looking at the story from Jimmy’s (Jason Segel) and Alice’s (Lukita Maxwell) perspective and said “I think my character would have different feelings about it.” And that gave us a really cool reason to keep Louis (Brett Goldstein) around. I thought it was a really special story and Jessica crushed it.
The Knockturnal:
Another thing that struck me as I watched all of season three, without spoiling anything, is when you look at Jimmy and Paul’s (Harrison Ford) entire relationship arc from the beginning to now, it’s so subtle the way they get closer and the relationship changes, that it almost doesn’t seem like it’s changing at all because Paul is exactly who he’s been. But then by the end of season three, it strikes you just how close they’ve become. Was it an intentional choice to make it a sneaky and subtle emotional surprise like that?
Bill Lawrence:
Yeah, because I always joke when someone says their grandparent or parent should get into therapy, that that’s when people change the most in their mid eighties. We knew as early as the first year that we had to earn making people believe that somehow, even though Paul maintained and held onto who he was, that by the end of the third year, he’s a guy that would [spoiler redacted for season three]. So that was what Brett, Jason and I pitched when we first sold the show. We knew it would be subtle and we knew that if we didn’t earn it, people wouldn’t believe it. Harrison Ford’s such a great, subtle actor. I don’t usually care about awards and stuff but he’s such an icon and he’s just doing such amazing work. I hope he wins one for this show.
The Knockturnal:
Me too. And it did feel very earned and rewarding as an audience member. We went on the whole journey that led us to that moment between the two of them. And it was very special.
Bill Lawrence:
I love writing about mentorship a lot because it’s been such a huge thing in my life and your mentors are never clean cut. So I’m grateful for those two actors, they crushed it telling this story.
The Knockturnal:
One of my other favorite parts about the experience of watching the show is how impressed I am by Luke (Tennie) and Lukita. What has it been like getting to not only mentor these young rising stars but watching them learn from these legends in the cast?
Bill Lawrence:
Here’s the compliment I would give those two. I was pretty clear with those guys early on that this show was cast with absolute assassins. Jessica Williams, who you mentioned already, Jason Segel, Harrison Ford, my wife Christa (Miller), Ted McGinley, Michel Urie, they’re all assassins. So both Luke and Lukita knew early on that I’m gonna put you in scenes with all these folks, and if you do, great, great, and if you don’t, you’re not gonna be big characters in the show. And those two are able to go toe to toe with them. If I could invest in either of their careers like it was a stock, I would do it tomorrow. They’re both not only funny, but unbelievable dramatic actors. As well as Rachel Stubbington who plays Summer. All three of them at a young age have done stuff that usually only actors with a lot more hours under their belt do, and have really taken ownership of the characters and made them their own. Whether it’s Luke saying “I don’t think Sean would say this” or Rachel saying “let me try a different joke here” it’s amazing to watch.
The Knockturnal:
I wanted to make sure I take a moment to talk about Christa. What is it like working with your wife as she both plays the role of Liz and is the Music Supervisor for the show?
Bill Lawrence:
It’s super cool. My wife started helping me out when she was a cool kid, she’s much cooler than I was as a kid. She was a DJ and was always music-obsessed and then when I did Scrubs we wanted to find indie bands to promote on the show and that was all her. She’s been doing that for my shows ever since, as a team with Tony Von Pervieux, and I think it’s cool that she doesn’t really give a hoot if anybody knows her or not. It’s just a job that she does out of passion.
As far as working with her, I think anybody that can work with their friends or family and doesn’t is a crazy person. It’s so rewarding for me. But I think people think that I’m just writing her like she is in real life, and I’m not, she’s just really, really good.
The Knockturnal:
I think people want her to be just like Liz because they love that character and her fearlessness so much.
Bill Lawrence:
The only character that is like a real person is Ted McGinley is without a doubt playing a version of me. But he gets to say things I wish I could say, and I don’t have that hair and that charisma.
The Knockturnal:
You have a dream team of guest stars this season with Candice Bergen, Michael J. Fox, Jeff Daniels, and Cobie Smulders is returning. How do you balance letting these guest stars shine while having limited story time for so many other full character arcs?
Bill Lawrence:
It’s tricky. We used to have this rule on Scrubs that we would only introduce outside characters if they had a comedic point of view and a story point of their own. And so I think we were very careful about it. We knew early on that Jimmy’s dad had to be an actor that could pull off being kind of a narcissistic jerk and super charming. It was one of those things where you go, it should be like a Jeff Daniels type. He even looks like Jason Segel. And the fact that Jeff wanted to do it was insane. I thought that Michael J. Fox was retired and he came to me and was like “You’re doing a show about Parkinson’s and trying to keep it inspiring and you haven’t asked me to be on it?” So that was super cool to get him on.
The Knockturnal:
Was there a question of whether the How I Met Your Mother reunion between Jason and Cobie would distract from the storyline? I felt like within the first 30 seconds after getting excited to see her, you fully forget the old characters and are very sucked into this new chemistry and dynamic.
Bill Lawrence:
Those two were so good and charming and had such an immediate rapport. I thought she was fucking amazing. It really made me happy. And look, Ashley, I’m a TV fan first. I know you are too. So for me, I was psyched to see them together again. They have such chemistry and they have such easy banter. She’s awesome.
The Knockturnal:
You’ve said from the beginning that this show was set up as a three season arc. But there is definitely demand from the fans for more. How do you feel about the potential to continue?
Bill Lawrence:
The cool thing about streaming shows is now when you pitch these shows, you pitch a beginning, middle, and end, and we did that. We had a three season story for Shrinking. It’s fun to do a story like that. And if we’re lucky enough to do a fourth season, we don’t want to start it with Jimmy waking up and saying “I’m still really sad about my wife.” You guys would be like, no, that story’s over. But I’m without a doubt enjoying my time. And I think it would be not only fun but pretty easy to tell a new three season story with this gang. I think everybody would be into it if Apple wants to keep going.
The 11-episode third season of “Shrinking” will debut globally with a one-hour premiere episode on Wednesday, January 28, on Apple TV, followed by one episode weekly until April 8, 2026.
