Davis (Jake Gyllenhaal), a successful investment banker, struggles after losing his wife in a tragic car crash in “Demolition.”
Despite pressure from his father in law Phil (Chris Cooper) to pull it together, Davis continues to unravel. What starts as a complaint letter to a vending machine company turns into a series of letters revealing startling personal admissions. Davis’ letters catch the attention of customer service rep Karen (Naomi Watts) and, amidst emotional and financial burdens of her own, the two form an unlikely connection. With the help of Karen and her son Chris (Judah Lewis), Davis starts to rebuild, beginning with the demolition of the life he once knew.
The film is now playing. Read what the cast had to say below during roundtable interviews.
Judah Lewis
How did you prepare for this role?
That’s a good question you know. You know for me it was really about uh, feeling and you know trying to step into Chris, my character’s shoes, and kind of see the world as he does… and view the world and kind of take things in as he would be taking them in.
So can you identify with him?
Yeah, I think he’s very relatable because I think he’s put up all these kind of walls and blocks, which is the hard exterior we see but I think he’s a really sweet kid. I think he’s just wondering and kind of wanting to know and searching for who he is – and not necessarily what society wants him to be, but who he really is and I think that’s something that a lot of people go through, you know and it’s a question of identity so I think he’s incredibly relatable.
Bullying is such a big problem in the school systems, have you ever incurred anything like that?
Not really. I go to a fairly small private school and my class is very small and very nice, so that hasn’t been something that I’ve come in contact with too much.
Can you speak with working with Jean-Marc and just building the character and his creative process?
Yeah, Jean-Marc is brilliant. You know, I can’t say enough good things about him. We actually skyped a lot leading up to the project to kind of talk about the character and the project and you know, our process centered a lot around feeling, you know. He didn’t necessarily give me line readings or ways to say things. It was more about emotion and it was the kind of thing that’s like okay, so what is Chris (my character) feeling at that moment that’s making him say that thing? So, it was more about what’s happening inside rather than what’s happening outside. Further, it’s interesting. It’s a very loose set and it’s a very open environment and I think what’s incredible about working with him is he really gives room for things to develop, you know. There isn’t like a certain way things have to go. We did a lot of improv for example. You know, there was a lot of ad-libbing and I think some of the most special moments can be found when you know, you’re just in your character and having a dialogue with another character that isn’t written down, but that’s just really coming from inside you.
Jake said that you were wonderfully irreverent and very confident. Weren’t you at all intimidated to work with such seasoned experienced actors like Jake and Naomi Watts?
You know, I think they made it very easy because they were both so welcoming and so generous and so I think I was never awkward or I was never nervous because they just welcomed me. And so I think that there wasn’t really room for that because the whole set environment was just so open and so fun.
Did you spend some time with each other before you started filming or did you get to know each other?
Not really. Not really actually my first day filming was the scene where we’re demolishing the house. I mean I walked onto set and was handed a sledge hammer. Like, “Go smash some stuff.” Oh okay. So, you know, I think that was the greatest ice breaker. My first two days with Jake were literally just annihilating this house. So I think that after that we were just buddies.
But were you hanging out like after filming? Just to get to know each other better?
Not really. I think it was more of an on set thing and I think that definitely we were buddies and I think our characters need each other. And I think that our characters are very broken people and I think that when they come together they’re kind of able to help each other and they’re both trying to find themselves. And so they’re able to do it together.
Did you understand the character’s feeling for enjoying that demolition and enjoying kind of destroying things, and wrecking things and breaking things apart? That anger that comes with it that kind of catharsis?
Yeah you know I think my character has all this anger and all this kind of turmoil and it’s built up. And I think especially in that demolition scene it’s a way to release it. And I think it’s incredibly liberating and incredibly freeing for both our characters. And I think it’s an opportunity for us and both of our characters to just completely let go and get all of that out.
How about when you were shooting, and the gun scenes. Can you talk about that? Because the idea of seeing someone so young with a gun in his hand was really disconcerting for me and yet, wow, you were really, you went for it. Can you talk about that? Is it the first time you’ve held a gun?
Yes, yeah you know of course it was all fake. You know, it was blanks and it was all incredibly safe. But, you know, I think from a character’s standpoint I think it’s about wanting to feel something. I think it’s about the need to feel and the want to be able to process and be able to feel some kind of emotion. And I think that scene is a climax where it’s absolutely bazar, absolutely over the top and it’s something that you would never think someone would actually do yet so right. And for those characters it’s what their process is. And that’s what’s so special about this film is that it’s so unconventional you know and it’s not necessarily how I think the world would perceive somebody would deal with grief and somebody would deal with finding their identity but that’s what’s incredible about it is it’s their process. And it’s their way of finding themselves.
You’re career has been really on a roll. You did “Point Break” in, excuse me that’s in 2015 and this. I understand you’ve been acting since the age of 4?
Yes.
Where did you get all this professional training? Did you, have you been taking professional classes? Is it sort of natural? Are you a sort of prodigy of people who love the acting and pushed you into the business?
Yeah you know my parents actually have a theatre company. So I’ve been doing that since I was four and a lot of kind of the truth I think comes from that because you know they focus on a lot of finding the truth in character, not in that kind of stereotyped romanticized character where it’s all kind of upfront. And you know I think for me it’s all about truth. I think what we see so often in film today is this very stereotypical kid. And it’s very rare that an opportunity and a character comes along that has this depth and has this realism. And so for me that opportunity was something so incredible to be able to portray a kid who really just is, and a kid who could be out there, you know?
What was the hardest part about playing him?
That’s a tough one. I think the maturity level of the content. You know there’s a lot of incredibly mature subjects and incredibly mature topics that come up. And you know that was definitely difficult. But I think once you enter into that character it’s simply what that character is going through. And I think it’s a way for that character to share himself with the world. And it’s honesty. You know my favorite scene in the film actually takes place in a hardware store and it’s incredibly mature and it has a lot of adult content but it’s so truthful and that’s what I love about it. It’s the honest setting and the weirdest time to bring up such a mature subject matter, but it’s honest and it’s right and somehow the character is just putting everything on the line and I think it represents the bond my character and Jake’s character have created with each other and the trust. And that scene is blatant and it’s truthful and it’s a bit comedic because I feel like in that honesty there’s a bit of comedy found.
Finding your sexuality is part of the identity and I think, I’m just curious how do you yourself try to find your identity by balancing out your schoolwork and you know the film work and all that?
Yeah you know I think it’s about staying true to yourself. And I think that’s a theme that comes up in this film a lot is really just in a way sticking to your guns, and being yourself and not worrying about what the world thinks about that or what society thinks about that but really just who you are.
Yes but putting on the polish, polishing your nails, the lipstick. When I saw you in the film I was taken aback by your acting. It took a raw talent to do what you did looking that mirror, the mirror scene? And I was like ‘How old is this kid?’ You know I know it’s acting but you just went above. I was really impressed. And how old are you?
I’m 14 right now. I was 13 when I filmed. Yeah that’s a good question. I think I wasn’t too worried about it because it’s all character. And I think that for Chris (my character) it’s what’s truthful and it’s what he feels. And so it’s my job and my responsibility as an actor when I step into him to be able to bring that to life and I think it’s something that’s so living inside of him and I think it’s a really mature but really relevant message. And I think it was a lot easier because of who I was working with. And you know Jean-Marc (the director), I mean I had the absolute most incredible time working with him. And to be able to plot out this character and talk about him and what he was going through, because he’s going through so much, and to be able to portray somebody like that is a huge responsibility. And one that I was just honored to be able to do.
Did you do any research of what teenagers who are coming out or going through that type of change go through?
Not to great extent honestly cause I focused more on the script. And I mean just my absolute gratitude to Bryan Sipe the screenwriter, you know. He wrote a masterpiece and he wrote an opportunity for me to play a character that isn’t found every day. And I think it made my job a lot easier because everything I needed was in the script. You know there was so much given to this character and there were so many pieces representing all the different layers that he had. And so I think for me it was just about bringing those words to life and being able to kind of portray them in an actual scene.
This film contains themes of finding oneself. You’ve been acting for ten years now. If you weren’t an actor what would you be and who would you be?
Hm. I’d definitely be playing a lot of baseball. I absolutely love baseball. I still do play.
What position?
Shortstop. Yeah I absolutely love it. I’ve been playing since I was 7 and I’m super into it. Actually I don’t know we’ll see what happens here but I’d love to also take baseball far so we’ll see what happens.
You talked about staying true to yourself and now you’re getting all this attention, people compare you with Leonardo DiCaprio. Are you at all thinking about how it is to be famous or how that could completely change your life and make it actually harder to stay true to yourself?
No. You know I try not to. I mean I’m just so grateful for, you know, all the positive, you know, reactions. But I just try to, you know, pick projects that mean something and that can make a difference and characters I resonate with and I feel that audiences will resonate with. I’m just kind of you know…doing my thing and seeing what happens I guess.
What’s next for you?
I actually just finished a project called “The Babysitter” which is my first lead role which is very exciting. And it’s a bit of drama and a bit of a thriller and a bit of a comedy so a little bit of everything.
Are you the babysitter?
I am not the babysitter, no, I’m the baby-sat I guess. I’m the person being babysat.
Do your parents ever take a hand in deciding or helping you decide what kind of characters and what parts to take?
Yeah I think with every part it’s definitely a collective decision. And I think, you know, especially with this one, you know, all the incredibly mature content. And I think it’s about, you know, finding projects that you can feel for the characters and that’s really important. Also finding projects that can make a difference because film has the ability to change somebody’s view on something and to change a perspective and there’s something so absolutely magical about that.
How important is an education?
More important than acting. It is the most important.
What type of music do you like?
Rock alternative.
Chris Cooper
Can you identify with your character, Phil? If so, how?
Well, I think sooner or later young, old, anybody is going to have this experience of losing someone near and dear to you. When I read the script, I had been approached over the years to deal with something like this, but I thought this was the time and this was the script. And I so sympathized with Phil, and I thought his behavior was that that I wanted to portray or put out there because I thought it was right.
You’ve worked with many, many directors, like John Sayles in Matewan back in 1987. How was working with Jean [Marc Vallée] different from working with other directors? He has a different process, from what we understand.
He does, but it’s a little adjustment. I understand some actors may really find it intrusive and upsetting to work that way, but it’s really not. What they don’t know is how much in the day that they will get accomplished, because this idea of working ‘French hours’—you just keep on the move and you grab a bite and you don’t break for lunch. The way he works with his DP, they are like attached at the hip and they can read each others’ minds. They’ve worked together so long. When they cover one angle of a scene, there’s no 15-minute break to relight. This is something technical I don’t understand, but they know light and they know how to work with it. Unbeknownst to the actors, they make a little adjustment and we’re right back to work. A 12-14 hour day is not unusual on a film shoot, but the great thing here is you get so much accomplished. He doesn’t storyboard. He feels out an area, a situation, a room. You get so much accomplished, and you go home early.
Does it help with the emotional part of the character, staying in character and staying in the scene without the big breaks?
I got to say that’s up to the actor. It’s up to the individual. I know in other shoots where I have that 15-minute break and I go back to the trailer, I have my way of staying in character and keeping in mind what’s going to come up to in a few minutes.
What was key in getting into that character? Did you get to keep those beautiful suits?
I have on occasion. Yeah, sometimes suits disappear from the shoot. Yeah, those were really nice. I spent a lot of time with the costumer and I’m very interested in the psychology of wardrobe and how it works. Sometimes I have my ideas and I’m very wrong. But it’s good to get an education from a good costumer about what color, what cut can say. But no I didn’t get those. You know, actually, I wouldn’t feel comfortable in those suits.
The chemistry between you and Jake [Gyllenhaal] was just intensive. What was that like?
It was like going back and running into your nephew. This is the third time we’ve worked together. I worked with Jake in one of his first films. He was sixteen when we did October Sky. I don’t know what year Jarhead came out but it was a handful of years later. He was a little, sweet, 16-year-old boy in October Sky and a young character in Jarhead called for something else and he was that. And now, he is a man, and a gentleman at that.
Is it easier to work with someone that you’ve worked with before, or multiple times even? Or does it make it harder because you know each other so well?
No, it doesn’t make it harder. I think, in this relationship with Jake, it does make it easier. I know his family. Everybody in his family is in the business. When we did October Sky he had to have a chaperone, so I spent a lot of time with his mother, Naomi. I’ve spent time at his home in Los Angeles, the family home, and have run into him at different events. It’s always nice. You have a little bit of history.
Have you ever demolished anything, and what?
My survival job. I lived in Manhattan for 17 years when I was going after the business, just starting out. Before I came here, I worked at the Kansas City Chiefs and Kansas City Royals football and baseball stadiums in 1970 and 1971. That paid for two years of college. Can you imagine, back then? But that gave me a craft as a carpenter. So I had a toolbox on wheels. I lived in Midtown, 48th and 8th, and I’d take the subway to the Upper East Side to some very wealthy people. And I’d knock down old maid’s quarters to enlarge their apartments. I’d put in a kitchen or tear out a kitchen. I could do everything. So I sledgehammered a number of walls.
So this hit close to home for you?
It’s right next door.
What’s more satisfying: putting the stuff up or knocking it down?
Putting it up. I think if I wasn’t an actor, I think I would have gone into architecture. I just love it. And I’m always tinkering with my house. I did a renovation of my house, we tore everything out to the studs six or seven years ago. My design was much more of a European feel for my downstairs and it was a joy. There was no rush. I spent a year and a half designing it and I chose the tiles and the fixtures and everything. It was great fun.
What I loved about this story is I feel like it wasn’t quite that predictable about where it was going with the characters. What did you love about the writing?
You said it. Even watching the film, I saw it once at the Toronto Film Festival, I thought “it makes sense to go this way, and it doesn’t”. It keeps you on your toes. You can’t anticipate the way it’s going. In the end, what I’m knocked out about is I think the audience got it. That this man, I think, was falling apart. When I saw the film, I didn’t see it in the script, I thought I saw there were periods where Davis was ashamed of himself because he realized he didn’t appreciate what he had. There were surprising moments even as close as I was to the film.
What did you think of the young actor in the film?
Pretty good, pretty good. In reality, a very sweet boy. Maybe he’s got a future.
You’re known to be very passionate about the research process. Is that more the exhausting piece of the work or the fun piece of the work?
I say it time and time again, it’s half the fun. It’s almost like going back to school. So many times, there’s stuff I need to know about a character’s livelihood or what he does or his background or the time he spent here or there. It is essential, it’s my comfort blanket. My security, that I do this research, this homework. It can sound really silly, for an actor it’s the building blocks. It’s what hopefully you buy as a character, you believe, and I’m trying to make you believe.
So are you doing research on Prohibition now, for the Ben Affleck movie?
Oh my god, yeah. What a time! I knew it, but it dawns on you—late 1920s, early 1930s, Prohibition, the Depression. And along with Prohibition is this strong religious quotient of the tent revivals, like Aimee Semple McPherson who was very popular at that time. My daughter, played by Elle Fanning, goes that way. So yeah there’s a lot of research. And then I asked Ben, ‘What do you suggest I take a look at?’ And he said take a look at Ken Burns’ Prohibition piece. That was a shortcut and hugely helpful. But I was also reading Studs Terkel at that time, a book that simply dealt with the ‘20s and ‘30s and every three years said ‘your daughter will be wearing this, her hairstyles will be like this,’ really in-depth stuff. It’s just an education, it’s just like going back to school.
You know, Chris, I don’t ever recall you seeing you in a frilly role like this one with a lavish lifestyle. Did you like playing that?
I coped with it. It’s not my cup of tea. I’ve had to spend time with people like that in many instances, but I don’t feel too comfortable.
Is it finished, the Ben Affleck movie?
Yes, sir, yeah it is. They shot a lot of it in Boston. The first half of the film deals with Boston. And then the second half, they went down to Savannah, Georgia and Savannah passed for Florida. My portion, where I play the chief of police in Tampa, you could shoot anywhere so we shot that in L.A. Then I got to work with Elle Fanning as my daughter. I was really impressed. It was a long shoot so there was a break time during the Christmas holidays. I started at the last quarter of the shoot, but Ben said, ‘You want to take a look at this sizzle reel that I put together for the cast and crew before we broke for Christmas holiday?’ So I said ‘Yeah let me see it’ and I was knocked out. I said ‘Okay I may have to look excited, Ben’s right over my shoulder, let me take a look at this stuff.’ But, man, what he had done was remarkable—way beyond my expectations.
Are you going to see him in Batman?
I’m guilty, you know, I did a little bit in those films. They’re just not for me.
So you’re not going to be at the premiere?
No, you know, I did a little piece in Spiderman 2 and I went to the premiere. I said, “The technology is remarkable, amazing, but give me a headache.”
Do you think that technology takes away from a form of acting, personally?
Yes. And I think directors are starting to talk now and the technologists are saying we’ve gone over the top too much. They’ve got to reign it in because it’s just too much.
What do you think about the preserving of film stock? Within probably ten years most of the filmmakers may be using digital film. But somebody like the Cohen brothers would still keep on shooting film.
I tell you, I’d have to take a class. I guess my eye is not that good. I don’t know if I could tell the difference, to be honest. And that’s what it would take. It would be great to set up ten screens and say ‘this is 70mm, this was 16, this was 32, this was digital.’ I’d love to see the difference because I can’t tell.
Are you more selective now that you’ve been working for as long as you have, and you’ve worked with as many people as you have?
I’ve always been selective. And my reputation is that “Cooper’s real picky” and I don’t mind that at all.
Was there ever a movie where you regretted that you turned it down?
Yeah, there was one that I just didn’t think it was going to turn out as good as it did and it was a film called The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford and Sam Shepard took my role. I saw that film and I liked it, I liked it a whole lot. But other than that, no great regrets and I’ve said no to so many films.
Do you have a favorite accomplishment out of all of your work?
Well a handful for different reasons. There’s a favorite aspect of Matewan and there’s a favorite aspect of the other film that I did with John [Sayles], particularly Lone Star, that touched on, crossed over so many boundaries, so many borders. Unfortunately, John is always six months, a year, ahead of his time because the subjects that he shoots or he works on, they come up to be real important, are talked about a year or two after.
He should make a movie; he hasn’t made one in a while.
Oh yes he has. But independent films, it’s so cutthroat. It’s so hard to get them out there. He did Go For Sisters and before that we did a piece in the Philippines about the American occupation of the Philippines at the turn of the century. It went nowhere, nobody saw it. Something I was talking about with all this friction about the Academy, nobody brought up the word of John Sayles who consistently cast African American, Native American, Philippine, men and women in his cast and crew. He gives people in crew, if they’re starting out, if they work on this film, they can rise a rung on the ladder. He’s a phenomenal granddaddy of independent film.
Bryan Sipe
How did you feel when the script finally got picked up?
Thank God, you know there’s so many of these moments that happened where I’m like, ‘Really, is this really happening now, I’ll believe it when I see. They want to pay me for it now; I’ll believe it when I see it. Wait Jake wants to do the movie; I’ll believe it when he’s on set. We’re going to make the movie; we’re really going to New York? You guys are in preproduction? You’re scouting locations? I’ll believe it when we’re rolling, and then I want to see if there’s film in the camera.’ The rug has been pulled out from underneath me so many times, I got to a point where, I just kind of eliminated expectations for this movie. Thank God, you know, because when it came along and when we were doing it, it was such an amazing experience and a surprise.
Did this movie have false starts?
Yeah, it had a few false starts along the way. You know it gets passed around with agents and production companies, and people who say they want to make it and then there’s no money. I don’t know how many times I’d go into these meetings and they go ‘Hey we love your script, congratulations “the black list”, that’s a big deal.’ Cool you want to make my movie? ‘No, we don’t make movies like this.’ That was almost everybody, you know? It’s crazy because the span of the ten years that I started writing this, and this movie has gotten made, the business has changed. We went through a recession, there was money nowhere for a while and then all of a sudden, there was money again to make some movies. At that same time there was this guy named Jean-Marc Vallée, who loved the script, and was really passionate about the script. Then we started talking and it was like — did I tell you about how we were trading songs back and forth? We would email these songs back and forth and it was cool because it was like, oh he’s interested in the same music. But what we were doing was creating a rhythm that became the base of the movie, you know; it was like this foot-thumping, and then it kept going and we kept trading this music, and all of a sudden it was like Jake Gyllenhaal wants to join the music. So he brings in these musicians and it’s like Jake Gyllenhaal, Naomi Watts and Chris Cooper step in and they all start playing together. In the beginning, it’s rock-and-roll, you know? It’s like dirty, it’s messy and a little bit of a racket,like what are they doing within some of these scenes? And then it’s like he guides them into his vision, his rhythm and gets everybody stomping with his foot. All of a sudden it’s like, whoa, how did he do that? He calls cut, and everybody looks at each other and goes ‘holy shit, did you see that?’ And then it’s just a whole lot of love, you know? It’s rock-and-roll.
What a great script, what was your inspiration behind this?
I did demolition work when I was a younger man. Sixteen until I was twenty years old I would work for my father tearing apart these burned down houses that they were going to rebuild after they were burned down. I was tearing down the walls, ripping down the roofs, crawling through insulation, that you’re breathing into your lungs. I slipped into this dark, dark place where I just thought like I’m never going to make it out of here. Then the other thing was I realized once you tear something down you can see how it’s put together. I wasn’t a writer at the time, but I think in a way we all have this artist brain, this creative brain; that brain grabbed a hold of that idea and set it in the back of my mind for something, maybe later I don’t know. That analogy about life, and I find my way out of that world and I go into Hollywood, and I have a little bit of success early on and I think this is easy, I’m going to be able to have this career. Then I didn’t work for like seven years and all of a sudden, I’m failing in my life, failing in my career, in my relationships; I’m broke. I’m working in a bar, hanging out after hours and drinking too much. I was in that same emotional place as I was in those burned out houses when I was eighteen, twenty years old, where there was this debris laying around me and I can feel it. I looked around my life, like how did this happen? When did this breakdown happen when I stopped caring again, you know? That’s where I was, in this apathy of not giving a shit.
How did you get out of it?
Davis, the character, this voice, it was this voice that just sort of found me and I followed him and it became this character. He was going through this loss and his loss was a woman, his wife and it’s like he invited me into that world and I followed him. I followed him into that hospital and down that hallway, to that vending machine. Through that vending machine and that simple little thing that says, write us for questions and complaints, he had an outlet to write these letters to someone or to anyone. I don’t know if he ever thought there was someone at the other end of them but it was really him venting all these feelings over the last dozen years of his life or so. In a way it was this cathartic exercise for me because the things that he was feeling, I was feeling; but the things that he was doing, were not okay for me to do. You know, the things that he was saying were not okay for me to say.
Did you write the letters early on as sort of a writing exercise?
No, they found their way into the story as it was unfolding. They were the things that came most fluently I would say, because they are the most honest things. There’s no veil over what he’s saying. He’s just sort of rambling, and it was fun because you just let that go and see what he says. Then you come across some things like whoa, that’s not appropriate. But that’s what he’s saying and I think it’s kind of honest, you know?
How about Chris’ character which is obviously very intense and comes with a lot of baggage?
Yeah, you know the vending machine introduced us to Naomi’s character and through her she introduced me to her son. I didn’t know she had a son until I really met her, it’s not like I set this up like there’s going to be a woman who’s going to have this son and he’s confused about his sexual orientation or whatever. It was just that I met him and I’m a big fan of complexity characters and he was this complex character. I wanted to let him be whoever he was going to be and because Davis was this very honest human being at this time in his life, it inspires Chris to be honest about things that maybe he’s not honest with himself about; certainly not with the people around him. Not with his mother, not with his friends and the environment that he lives in, so Davis was like a safe haven for him.
Was there any kind of wiggle room, in regards to the script, screenplay itself and the actual concept/dialogue?
Yeah, the way that Jean-Marc works, I don’t know if you know this but he doesn’t work with; first of all everything is hand-held the entire time. There’s not one light anywhere near-side, it’s all practical lighting. This is what the light is and that’s what you get. No marks for anybody to hit, there’s no storyboards, there’s no shot lists; so he goes in and creates this space for the actors. This is your playground, this is where the scene is going to take place, let’s see it, let’s rehearse, but in rehearsing, he’s shooting everything. He’s finding it too, he’s figuring out the pulse and the rhythm of this scene as the actors are figuring out themselves and it becomes this dance. One person moves there, and he moves the camera here, whatever feels right. So within that, they might be saying things that are in the script and then step away and then say “You know I feel like he wouldn’t say this,” or “this feels like too much right now.” And Jean will be like ‘get rid of it.’ There would be sometimes whole sections, and I feel really grateful for this because he was very precious about the script. More so sometimes then I would be, and very respectful of myself and the script. Sometimes he would come to me and just let me know that we were getting rid of a chunk of dialogue, and of course I would be like, ;’yeah you’re the boss and I trust you.’ Whatever is making the scene better, then do that thing. I think he wanted to keep me involved and it was out of respect I think for myself and for the script.
Why make Davis a stockbroker?
Look I didn’t know anything about that world; I don’t know anything about the money world of finance. But it was a way to juxtapose his world against this other world that he was going to stumble into; into Naomi’s world, and starting out with a guy who has everything, there’s a long way to fall. Then I think it becomes a good way to question what everything is. Is happiness measured by the Porsche that you have sitting in your garage, or the amount of zeros sitting in your bank account, or the size of your house and your flat screen TV? Because in the end, he’s throwing the flat screen TV out of the window and he’s trying to rip everything apart, so that he can see the bigger picture of how this is put together and maybe he can rebuild it from there. I know it’s a very obvious metaphor, I try to be obvious about it, but I also call it out,.We had his character even saying, “Everything is becoming a metaphor.” He was driving around looking at things going. “Metaphor, metaphor, metaphor.” I think that having an awareness of it is the way we were able to get away with that. But that’s what I was experiencing at the time, because I was experiencing the same apathy. I’m walking around my neighborhood, seeing things like, “That’s a metaphor for what I’m going through right now, that’s a metaphor over there.” I was seeing things everywhere. So I just sort of put that into his world and into his character.
That’s what made it so believable, The Wall Street bankers, and they have so much. You know here today, gone tomorrow; I plunge into the movie because of that. We have Wall Street and I’m surrounded by it 24/7, what goes on in that crazy mixed up world. To see this guy come apart, it was just, wow what can I say? That’s good writing.
Yeah, that’s Jake Gyllenhaal.
On a writing aspect of it, words are just words on a page, I feel like the writer puts the life into it and the actor interprets it. Whereas some would believe that the actor is the one who brings life to the words. What is your perspective on that?
Well obviously it starts with the script and the story and I think Jake would say the same thing. He would say that he’s not so much interested in character as he is in the story, and the story grabs his attention. I think that it’s a bit of both; it’s a confluence of ideas once you’re actually making the movie. But you have to start with the script; I try to put forth the best thing that I possibly can because I’m not going to get another chance at Jake Gyllenhaal reading my script. So you want to put something on the page that is going to intrigue him and pull him into this world. And ultimately I want to write for actors and directors. Every actor I have that’s going to read a script I want them to say, ‘I have to play that character,’ and every director. ‘I have to direct that movie.’ For me that’s what drives the process .Our language is words and I agree they’re symbols, but it’s the order you put them in that creates an emotion.
How has your writing style changed from your previous work?
I think the difference was I honestly feel like I found my voice with this script. I hadn’t experienced the writing process this way with anything else I had written. I’ve been very systematic about writing a screenplay; you break it down, you put your outline up there and you write in the scenes you are going to have in that outline and Act one, Act two, Act three. With this I had, like I said, I started with a voice and as he started telling me the story, I tried mapping that stuff out. I put up the stuff on the note cards on the wall, but the character was like, ‘No we’re not going to go to that, and we’re going to go over here.’ Sometimes I would be like, well that’s not going to lead me to there; and he would be like, ‘No, trust me.’ I would have to follow him, and sometime it would be a dead end and I would have to turn around. There were a few moments where he led me down these roads that were better. Does that answer your question?
You spoke about how personal this was on many levels, so what’s next for you?
You know, I’m developing some ideas, I’m a little superstitious about them because once they’re not fully formed, I end up talking about them and then I realize maybe I don’t have an idea. But I just want to do this again; I want to write about something. I want to put myself in a position where I can make movies like this with directors like Jean-Marc or eventually write a script that I can direct myself and cast an actor like Naomi Watts or Chris Cooper. And those movies have to be about something and there’s a lot of different ways you can go in Hollywood to make a paycheck, and there’s some trappings, and I want to try my best to stay out of those traps.
What were some of the things that got added to the production while they were filming that caught you off guard as a screenwriter?
That caught me off guard?
Yes that they added or ended up taking away?
Well I told you how Julia’s character really didn’t exist in the movie. I had written her into the first scene of the script where she’s in the car with him and we don’t see her face and the whole thing behind that is that, he forgot about her. Then he sees her in these pictures in the end. But the first day of shooting we’re using this actress, Heather Lind and Jean-Marc was like, ‘She’s fantastic we need to use her more.’ So I was off writing scenes where we can include her. Now we’re showing her face and it wasn’t supposed to be there, I think what it added to the story was care. You cared about her, you felt his loss and in the end you began to understand him a little bit more.
It added to a backstory.
Yeah, it paints the picture a little more thoroughly.
Behind the fact of Naomi Watt’s character and Jake’s character it’s not romantic, it’s an emotional connection. Was that always intended to be that way?
No, we explored the idea of being romantic and we jettisoned that idea because we love the relationship that they had without the physical, without the sexual. It felt different; it felt like we didn’t want to fall into that trope of the sexual relationship, so I think that it worked.
Jake Gyllenhaal
How was working with Judah Lewis?
I think most children, or young kids who are actors who have talent, it’s always sort of an interesting sort of epiphany for the audience to see someone do something. That cross section you have where you don’t exactly have that craft, that performance after performance that you need to cultivate, but he does have an inherent sense of talent, and he is really charismatic, and I think you’re right …. The character itself, too, was written so well by Bryan [Sipe]. I think it’s the most, clearest sort of, most loved character by the writer in the whole piece and so it’s sort of a mixture of the two of them but yeah Judah’s a wonderful actor, wonderful.
Is it to your benefit, having started so young yourself, to work with a younger actor? Do you come in with certain recollections of when you started?
Uh, yes and no. I think I have a rule, like a bit of a mandate, when I work with a kid … I mean I worked with this young wonderful actress named Oona Laurence, on this movie Southpaw that I did, and my rule was always just to follow them, I have this belief that- Paul Simon says “I was born before my father and my children before me”, you know, and I think the idea is that they’re just closer to some sort of, their instincts, maybe some sort of wisdom, and so my rule is to always just follow them. It’s generally my rule in life too. They’re usually going to show you something that you didn’t see. Being an adult, we tend to ignore, so that’s just my general theory when working with kids.
So this, was there something specific that you felt like you’ve learned from him, or that he showed you that you weren’t aware of? Do you think, with all these heavy subjects and all?
No, I think it’s more technique. I don’t think it’s I don’t look to children to tell me how I’m supposed to feel. (laughing) But I do see them as arbiters and harbors of a wisdom that they might not be totally aware of.
Can you speak about collaborating with Jean-Marc Vallée and what you admire about him as a filmmaker?
Well I think essentially he is a man of the process. He is all about process, even though he started off as an editor and primarily exists as an editor, in a lot of ways, but then, as a result of knowing that, if he puts choices sort of in a bucket, that’s how I tend to look at my work, I put a lot of choice into a bucket for a director, and they take that bucket and they hook me up with that in the fridge, then we need to cook something up, take this or that, you know? And he is simultaneously sort of boundary-less and slightly controlling, and so he moves around you. Obviously there is practically no vanity in his process, so there is no, literally no vanity, in that there is no makeup, and no lighting and the camera is always on someone’s shoulder. There are no real particular linear angles in his filmmaking. Everything is sort of existing on a 360 degree world. I would say even more so than that, up, down, everywhere…wherever something is existing and is honest, he’s going to go find it. He wants to have the agility to do that. That’s the way he works. And it is actually the way I love to work as well. I mean, you adapt, because that’s craft, and that’s experience, you adapt to a director’s style, or to a crew’s style, that’s how it goes, but ideally I love just trying to move faster than my brain, and listen to the universe as it shows you things, and try and capture them, and that’s his process.
What’s your process for playing a character who doesn’t show or have emotion so much on your face? That’s a different kind of role for you.
Yeah. I have a different kind of belief, and I learned that from this movie, that I think apathy is equal to empathy. I think we don’t give it the equality that it deserves because convention continuously tells us that we must be feeling, we must be, this is the way to become a better person, but I think the way to become a better person is to understand yourself and how you move through the world. Then you can do something. It’s like you got to put the oxygen mask on yourself before you do anyone else, you know? And in that way, it was an interesting journey. It’s hard as an actor, you want to emote, just out of ego, you think acting is about that. You think expression is about emoting. But really expression can be, I think as we all know, in profound silences, and sometimes non-feelings, as much as it is in huge primary color expressions of feelings.
You’ve tackled many roles over the years. “Brokeback Mountain,” gosh, all the films you’ve done. And it always comes back to characters. Is there a particular genre or something that you feel is your proudest work you’ve done over the years or something that you feel comfortable doing? Or do you just take anything as it comes? You tackle everything that comes to you, it seems-
I try, well I’m always scared, you know? I try and put myself into –
You’ve never been a superhero.
Right, yeah. I don’t know how I could do research for that, though. I love preparation and I just don’t know what superhero I could talk to. But, I think I don’t really have a favorite. I think each one of them, as I’m sure everyone here has in their life and their work, each thing is a lesson and each movie for me or experience, whether it turns into a movie or not, you’re developing something. It’s always a lesson. A great lesson in letting go of expectations. I mean, there is a movie that is a seminal cultural movie, like Brokeback Mountain, I’m proud of that as an American citizen and a citizen of the world, but at the same time, I’m proud of the little moments, I’m really proud of weird things. It’s not movies altogether. It’s moments, things that I think were honest. These movies are not my creation, I’m a piece of them. When I see them, the things I love, they’re odd. When everyone’s like what’s your favorite color I’m always like that’s an interesting question. So it’s hard to tell you that.
The manner in which you’re able to basically transform yourself and become these amazing characters has always been astounding to me. Would you say that it is analogous to, just getting information from a hard drive, or an artist molding a piece of clay into a sculpture? What would you think would be the best analogy for it?
I can only give you an example based on where I am about to go, because I am in the middle of a journey of creation, and my biggest thing always is this aspect, that David Lynch-ian thing of trying to catch the big fish in a way: you have to listen. I’m trying to find ways in which I can listen. I’m not always that good at it, particularly at a junket where I’m talking about myself, which I really enjoy. But I think that’s what I try and do, I try and trust that, somewhere, and this is going to sound lofty, but I trust that the universe is going to give me a clue, because I pick something out that I actually believe in. So if I’m doing something I actually believe in, I know I’m going the right way and that I will get clues. It’s when I know I’m going the wrong way, then I’ll be like, shit there’ll be no clues, I’m lost. What I would liken it to is I get these odd feelings and then I move towards them. Like, you know, what I’m struggling with right now in my next movie, is we have a whole rig because I’m playing a guy who’s lost his leg. What I’m interested in is what it’s going to feel like to be like physically trapped in a space, what that is, how that feels, what that will make me feel. It won’t make me feel good. But ultimately the movie is about love, and how somebody brings someone through something, great love. So to trust that someone will be there, I don’t know, it’s hard. I likening it more to that, this is a cliché too, but that structure, that piece of rock, you chip away a little piece but-oh fuck! The whole, well, alright, that’s what we have now. And slowly try to form it into something that looks like you had some sense of what you were doing early on. And then people go like, oh that’s really cool. Or they think it sucks, and you know, it’s a crapshoot.
Don’t cut off your legs for this next movie! What is this next thing?
I’m playing a guy named Jeff Bauman who lost his legs in the Boston bombing, the Boston Marathon bombing, and it’s really not a story about the Boston bombing. It’s a story about him and his journey with his then girlfriend, now wife, their journey through it, and his sort of quirky, really complicated family around it, really ultimately their love story. Which with or without his legs would be just beautiful. So, it happens to be about all of that. And he’s just an incredible human, you know, and hilarious. It’s actually funny, I hate to say it, but it’s actually funny. He’s a lovely, really funny guy.
You made a visit to the hospital, I read that you talked to people. Did you learn a lot from that?
Well there’s a wonderful rehab facility, place called Spaulding, maybe you’re talking about that, in Boston, that is probably one of the most incredible facilities that I’ve ever been to or seen. The work that they do, and just the structure, of a rehab or hospital where there’s light pouring in from everywhere, there are these beautiful views, you walk in and you feel loved and welcomed no matter what. Whether you’re suffering from something, trying to move through it, or you’re not, you’re just visiting, it’s a place you want to be. I visited there the other day, so maybe that was it, but I’ve been to a number of hospitals and met a number of people. Another place, United Prosthetics, that provides Jeff with his genium legs, the prosthetic that attaches to his leg, which is an incredible thing, they’re artists over there, I was there the other day, the company that makes the genium leg, which is like mind blowing, he’s an above the knee amputee, and he can walk, he has motorized legs that can walk. They do incredible work. So I’ve been meeting with a lot of people, doing a lot of different things, but to really see the artists that create these things is beautiful. So that’s next.
When I see this film, demolition is part of the building. In your acting that, do you have a similar experience, where you have to demolish first in order to reconstruct yourself, in life?
It’s funny, I really believe that creating something is so much harder than demolishing it. Demolishing it is like waking up that inner child in you, that inner four-year-old, holding the little blocks, and they kick it over in like satisfaction, that need to destroy something. And I think we all have that kid in us, you know? And so I also think though there is a mature part- there is a book, a long time ago I studied Eastern religion in college, but I was also interested in other extracurriculars in college, outside of that- I read this book called Going to Pieces Without Falling Apart, which is written by this psychoanalyst but also Buddhist, and I think that’s kind of more the idea- it’s possible to do that, and you should be able to do that, search for finding yourself, you have to break apart those pieces and sort of lay them in front of you, or wherever, or try and discard them and they come back, whatever the process is, in order to understand yourself. It’s why I love this movie. You start off with a guy who made all these conventional choices, up to the moment of this tragedy that happens to him. And because he was not listening to himself but listening to what society and convention told him, when this tragedy happens, he’s absolutely lost, and doesn’t know what he feels, because he doesn’t know his own feelings. Then he spends an entire movie trying to figure out how to get back to himself, so he can feel what he wanted to feel about the event what he wanted to feel in the first place. And so in a way it’s this crazy journey, but it’s also, it’s hopefully a little bit of a message. Yeah, take from convention what works for you, but f— the rest.